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Navy P Coats

Ther seems to be many questions and answers on Navy P Coats and Quality. I as a 30 Year Navy Vet of The Korean War and also a Former Quality Assurance Specialist for Defense Contracting May help with some facts.

When copanies say the had Navy contracts or make to Navy Specs, Takes in a large area of facts, First off Most vintage Coats of ww2 or Korean war will have a label that says Navy Cloting Factory Not the actual company,, Most companies were contracted to make clothing contract depends on Price and who can deliver the spec, and on time. usualy decided by top three bids.

The ww2 coats were 10 button with storm Flap and 32 OZ,100% Kersey Wool,  Korean War and or Post ww2 was then changed to 8 buttons, 32 oz 100% Melton Wool, No storm Flap and yes the Tan or Gold colored Corduroy Pockets, Note that Buttons were sewed on in a Z formation. And anchorsd always at 6 oclock position.

Some time later i cant say vbut when my three sons joined the Navy in the 80's and 90's the coat became much lighter and cheaper feeling, like 24 oz, and a blend wool,And i think 6 buttons.

Schotts , along with Sterling co. makes a very good coat and close to What was Vintage, and true to spec at the time it was spec,

But if You want authentic or Vintage then I suggest Ebay,, But Buyer beware,

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Gail on 11/18/17 at 06:55 AM

Not sure I would recommend Ebay for a vintage P-Coat. I have seen too many posts on Ebay that have been posted but do not have the actual facts of the jacket correct. So yes BUYER BEWARE, our classic style #740 is still made to a vintage version of the original peacoat with the 32 oz wool, quilt lining and 10 buttons that are actual military spec buttons. Even at Schott we have produced and sold a variety of styles, wool types and colors in the P-Coat. Final words if buying from Ebay be sure of the facts and check the jacket out. Remember the jacket is wool so there is always the possibilty the jacket has not been professionally dry cleaned and you should have it cleaned to remove the dirt and sweat from previous owner. Sometimes it does pay to buy new, then you know the history of your jacket, but if you buy use just check out any jacket.

Gail

princeton on 11/18/17 at 09:35 AM

Thanks Gail

But if you read my post I have 30 years Navy experiance and very familiar on Mil Spec P Coats. Or Vointage, and quality of Wool and weights, .

I also said Buyer beware on Ebay, How ever i found that there are some on Ebay that are the real thing, I just bought a ww2 10 button p coat on Ebay that was the real deal, How ever I have posted to or emailed some sellers for strecthing the truth on what was called Authentic or Original and Military Spec.

Gasil Your #740 is  Nice coat, I bought one for Family how ever To mil spec in the fact its 10 buttons are But the ww2 vintage coat did not have a quilt lining and it was Kersey Wool. I was issued one and still have it. I also have my Korean awr issue and Viet Nam,, My sons have theres from the 1980 and 90's Schotts makes a nice coat But I am Vintage and have the age and the experiance . And any one that has wool understands it need dry cleaned,, And Gail working for Schotts I am sure is very rewarding and they make a good product but and may have been a contractor for the Navy as did Sterlings and many others, over the years, But some times the Manufacture advertisements arent always correct and those of us that have the actual experiance may be correct and know what we say to be true.

Gail on 11/19/17 at 09:07 AM

I would never disagree with a Navy man. Since I was only a baby when WWII was happening, I can only go by research. Working as the purchasing agent at Schott I have worked on several military contracts, including the cloth style N-3B and the leather G-1.

The Kersey wool question has been asked before, so I have tried to research the wool on Google. From what I have read the Kersey wool represented a certain way the materials were woven and was a more reasonable priced wool blend product. I have tried to research where Kersey wool was produced and could only locate manufacturer's outside the US mainly in England. This confuses me since as you know all materials down to the thread must be produced in the US to be used on any military contract. As purchasing agent each supplier I purchased from had to send documents with the shipment, confirming it met all military specs. This raised the question if WWII p-coats Kersey wool it would have had to be imported as I can not find a US manufacturer that produced this type of wool. The other option could only be that US manufacturers started to produce the Kersey wool, but did not use the word Kersey, which from what I can find is the way the wool was woven and a less costly blend of materials woven together. Possibly production in the US went from Kersey to Melton??? I do not have the answer.

The question of the  buttons I have also been asked. I can only go by our company's history when in WWII we did supply p-coats to the navy. We have continued to use 10 buttons, the 2-hidden buttons under the collar, I would think the under collar buttons were used when on ship in the winter and the sailor wanted his necked covered and buttoned up. I am sure some manufactures for a retail coat, did not use the 2-hidden buttons, thus cutting down on the cost of the garment to maufacturer. Two buttons may not seem like a great saving for a manufacturer, but if you are manufacturing thousands of jackets each year, it does add up.

I only caution about Ebay as like you I have seen many jackets described incorrectly. Since you are a Navy man you know the issued P-coat will have a label containing the Mil-Spec # of the item, Contact number, Content,Manufacturer, and size. I have attached 2 photos of the N-3B jacket we did, one of the jacket and one of the label that was in the jacket, which represents a label of what a military issued garment looks like. Of course different items will have different appropriate for that garment. These two photos are from our 100th Anniversary book.

I am all in for learning all the time, so if you can locate actual specs somewhere, that confirms what the WWII issued P-Coat from the 40's was, please let me know. I really want to be provide accurate information to all. Thank you for any help you can give me.

Gail

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princeton on 11/19/17 at 10:38 AM

Yes Gail I too have read and researched the Specks on Navy p coat and Flight Jackets, It was my job as a Quality Assurnace Specialist in DLA to be up on  all specs, But I see you did your home work and as a Purchasing agent that was your Job, And it looks like you do it well.

If you want to know the specs on the P coats, You can get that off the label of one  from that period, And contact GSA and am sure they will send you a copy unless its pritory info by manufacture.

As for G-1 and N3B or NB2 jackest there are many copys out there that claim authentic but you and i both know they are not even close at times,, One big change on them are the collars as they no longer and havent in years made  natural fur collars,

The G-1 which  i also have as i was in Naval Aviation , Was Made of Horse hide at first then to Goat skin, And A Muskrat collar.  I also Have my original MA-1, before they change the pockets, My biggest treasure is My N-1 Deck coat which i gave to my Grand daughter as i found it on Ebay with my former squadron number and ship mates name on it and when i bid on it i lost, But after telling the seller my story he sold it to me for 65.00 bucks,, I have reserched for them and cant find any that are the real deal , Any now on Ebay are old and trashed, one company in England makes a decent one but for 600 bucks, For Most Sailors the Deck Coat was our only real treasure of a warm and water proof jacket, I wore it in winter in Korea on Flight deck of my carrier, .

Nice info Gail and Thanks,

princeton on 11/19/17 at 10:51 AM

Gail,

My WW2 Navy  P coat , FSN, is NXSX 97738 US NAVAL CLOTHING FACTORY ,, BROOKLYN NY

That should help,,Spec numbers on Post WW2 coat and poat Korean war.  is worn off, But they also were Naval Clothing Factory.

princeton on 11/19/17 at 11:22 AM

Gail.

I have one of Schotts P coats I bought for daughter and very nice coat. But I will have to say and only as a INFO comment. I have a LL Bean P Coat and am very happy with it as its 100% wool 32 oz. and has a very course or raised Nap, not polished  surface. only has six buttons but very heavy and warm coat with silk or Nylon lining, I would have to guess that its made by Filson.

If I would have to rate all the P Coats i have experiance with I would have to rate the WW2 10 button Kersy wool and the LL Bean one at my top of the list for Quality and Warmth But for Looks and soft feeling surface then it would be my Post ww2 and korean war Coats.

For Warmth and rugged wear the N-1 Deck coat or as we called it The Foul Weather coat. Then for looks the Navy G-1 or AF A- 2 Leather Flight Jacket and if you are a Bike rider the CWU 45. or MA-1 And i only Buy USA made.

princeton on 11/19/17 at 12:03 PM

Gail

I dont know if you read my other Job than Navy. I was Quality Assurance Specialist for Defense Logistics Agency in Contracts and purchasing of Military weapons and systems for over 22 years,, I am very much up to speed on your experiance with Contract s with the Military or any other agency.

I have done many pre awards and post awards with comercial companies. boith small business and mega companies.

In fact I once worked for NCR and was tested to be a Purchasing Agent and passed.smile, But went back to Navy ,

PS: I want to add that to your comment on the two hidden buttons on ww2 P coat was for a storm Flap that came with it, WW2 Coat had 10 buttons and two small hidden buttons under collar for storm flap, Post ww2 did not have this and was eliminated.and went to 8 buttons and 100% Melton Wool .some time post Viet Nam the coats went to 24 oz and 75% or 85 % melton wool. Hope i have been of help,, 

And you rtight cost is always the factor,, Navy has always looked to cheaper after Viet Nam. in Uniforms, Even the white hat isant the same quality as ours was in my day,, Just look at any old pictures of Sailors of WW2 and Or Koprean war, in Blues or Whites and then todays and you will see a  smarter looking Blue Jacket then was now or later, Like Steve Mcqueen in San Pebbles was how we looked, Tailored made Bells and ALSO Whites that fit and didnt wear a white hat like a soup bowl, But money talks as they say,, lol

princeton on 11/19/17 at 12:07 PM

PS: iT just caught my eye you said you were a little girl in ww2, That would put you close to my age, and why are you still working,, at 75 to 80 something,,, lol

Gail on 11/20/17 at 07:19 AM

I am actually 73 and I started working for Schott in 1981. When I turned 70 I retired, but after a few weeks I returned on a part-time basis. I continued to work at the factory until I was diagnosed with Cancer 2 years ago, after Chemo I am Ok, and now work from home. I now reply to all the inquiries on the forum here and direct emails sent to us about our jackets. Guess I have been around long enough to remember a lot of the jackets. I also started working at Schott when the original owner Irving Schott in his 90's still come to the factory. I have worked with his son, his grandchildren and his great grandchildren. I always loved my job and the people I worked for, they are a great family. I still enjoy my job from home and if the factory was closer to my home I would still be going into the factory to work, I just don't like the long drive anymore. Guess I am just not the retiring type.

Gail

princeton on 11/20/17 at 08:04 AM

Good for you Gail, I admire that and glad to hear you beat the Big C,

Our Generation has great work ethics something not seen much today, I raised all my Kids to have it and was lucky they all did and still do.

I retitred from Government in 1996 , But continued to work for years later up to  I was 74 but then just got fed up with putting up with bosses and people and went total retired,, I am Going on 84 now and dont miss work at at, I have been around the world three times, Two wars, Raised 5 kids and had two wives, I have spent over a year in Maine fishing and traveled the whole state and Nova Scotia,

I dont have any more places i want to be or any more things to accomplish as i feel I have done them all.

I enjoyed our conversation Gail and stay with it as long as yoy enjoy it ... Take care and Thanks for listening to my info,, and chats.

 

John

Gail on 11/20/17 at 11:21 AM

Thanks John,

I am impressed with all you have done in your 84 years, it sounds like you have had a good adventure in your life. Keep in touch and Happy Thanksgiving.

Gail

princeton on 11/20/17 at 11:37 AM

Thanks and I didnt miss much if I did it wasnt worth doing,, lol. And Happy Thanks Giving to you also,,Its been a Pleasure

 

John

princeton on 11/20/17 at 12:24 PM

PS: I stand corrected , My ww2 Coat is 36 oz Kersey wool , Oh well almost was right,, lol

princeton on 11/22/17 at 02:08 PM

princeton wrote:

PS: I stand corrected , My ww2 Coat is 36 oz Kersey wool , Oh well almost was right,, lol And Gail I went over all you inventory on Military coats and i will say they are all very nice however the N3B, and Ma-1 also the N-1 Deck coat is no way near the original coat. Especially the N-1 deck coat, Yours is far more fancy than the original one. I wish i had one like that on deck but dont think iot could of taken the abuse .. Happy Thanks Giving

 

Gail on 11/23/17 at 07:45 AM

You are correct most styles are not to the specific specs or the design of the original jackets, unless they are military issued. There are many brands, materials and copies of these classic styles, we try to keep as close to the classics as possible. Enjoy your Thanksgiving and let all say a prayer and give thanks to all servicemen, who have served this country or who are now serving. God Bless you all.

Gail

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