at 03:17 PM
By and large I think you are dealing with bull rumours.
BUT the leather, specifically their steerhide and naked cowhide that Schott has used in the past 5 years or so is definately different than what they were able to get 20+ years ago. They are also using lighter grades of cow that they refer to as "waxy cowhide" and Icelandic cow. I am pretty sure ALL of the leather that Schott currently uses in their made in USA jackets is imported.
I have seen several styles that Schott has designed and had made in China. The workmanship is excellent. These pieces are "fashion" type jackets and generally have lighter weight leather, some are vintaged and really have a cool broken in look.
So far I have not seen any plastic type hardware on either made in USA or Import stuff.
at 11:41 AM
The removable liner in a Schott Perfecto 125 now has a zipper that is made of plastic instead of metal. The 3 previous 125s I owned(purchased 1992, 1996ish, and 1999) all had a metal zipper on the removable liner.
When I voiced my displeasure, I was informed that the plastic zipper is more expensive than the metal one and that it was changed due to customers complaining about the metal zipper irratating their necks...never bothered me during the 18 years I rode, walked, drank, played with it on.
The leather on the current Perfecto 125 is also of a lighter weight than the 3 previous ones I have owned.
at 12:25 PM
wolverine, thanks for the input or response. Are you a representative of Schotts?
Opinions are just that.. opinions. I'd like to have some facts and responses direct from Schotts because I think the issues are important and secondarily since these questions have been posed to me I'd like to provide the venue or vehicle to either confirm or deny those allegations or lay to rest negative issues,.
Who am I to be conerned in the first place? No one in particular but since I've been tasked to respond. . . well there is the rub..yes?
at 12:44 PM
Guess I have to do an add too as well.
Does anyone know for sure if the hides are in fact imported? I would suspect so under the circumstances but who knows better than Schotts themselves.
For those that have missed some of the ancilary inputs the subject of hides, skins,leathers has been discussed to some degree in the past two monts or so. I'm sort of laughing at the generic use of "cow" to describe those leathers. Bovine most assuradly but then too the type of bovine as well as the tannng process enter into te issue being bantered about.
The issues involved are really not all that important in the overall scheme of things in life today but are issues I am now curious about as well. At least one other person (outside the queries I've fielded ) seems to be concerned as well. Are these issues worth addressing?? I think I'll leave that up to others now but I'd sure like to know.
at 02:15 PM
I did not want you to think I was avoiding your questions in not replying. I am not that educated in the tanning process to provide an educated answer in the process. I have emailed Jason to review this post, and hopefully be able to post a reply for you. He is currently at the Magic Show in Las Vegas so I know he will not be able to post an answer to now.
I can tell you we still order from leather suppliers in the US, but most of the leather hides are tanned outside the USA. This is due to the DEP and the restrictions that tanneries must comply to in tanning the hides. Unfortunately when complying became too costly, they moved their tanneries outside the US.
Any changes we have made in our jackets such as removing the metal zip-out liner zipper, we hope have improved the jacket. The new liner coil zippers do not scratch your neck or break as easily by the teeth becoming jammed. This was the major complaints from our customers on these metal zippers. We here from our customers not only on the blog but by email and phone, and they give us their input. Many of our changes are based on the customer with their request for changes in a jacket . Whether it is a zipper change or a type of leather request we try to provide what you the customer wants in a jacket. As we all know though we you cannot please everyone all the time, we can only try.
at 03:49 PM
Thank you so much for the individual answer. I really appreciate that. . you will never know.!
As to the leather. moot point. I believe by now everyone knows or should know that the US of Archie placed such restrictive limits on the types of chemicals that may be used in "tanning" that even the EPA could not comply with if they could even read and wrie on note paper. I have had the pleasure ( minus the odors) of seeing first hand how leather is processed in many countries. By the way the term tanning is derived from the bark and sap of the "tannic" tree. (Varients in spelling)
Anyhow back to point. Now I got a better perspective of the zipper issue. Since I 've no first hand knowledge I shall not comment further. I am satisfied that the metal (brass) zippers are NOT on the outside. Good.
In several comments there is concern over the "thickness"..beyond that I don't know. Thickness is not a measure of the quality nor durability of any specific hide. The fiber density is most important and a qualified buyer (bidder) would / could / should determine those qualities mmediately.
I can't imagine wanting a leather garment of heavy leather. Dense leather like that from Argentina would be my choice anyhow.
at 04:07 PM
If you ride a motorcycle, especially in the Northeast, you would really appreciate a "heavy" weight leather jacket during the winter, early spring, and late fall... I like wearing my motorcycle jacket on my motorcycle. Functionality over fashion seems to be something from the past.
at 02:11 PM
Dear Geno and all,
I truly appreciate all of the time and energy that all of you have put into our message board and our brand more than you know. I try to make sure that all of your questions are answered as much as possibe and I try to do it myself as much as time allows. I'm probably not dedicating as much time as I should to communicating with you guys and I apologize. It is also a tremendous source of pride for us to see how by simply making jackets we have been able to touch so many lives. However, the flip side of this is that there are many people who seem seriously ed off with us. I have to be honest, it seriously affects my psyche! I'm not looking for sympathy here. I guess I am just trying to point out that we do care, and when people have bad things to say about us it gets through. We hear it. When one person isn't happy we aren't happy. I cannot think of many other brands that are as forthcoming with information as we are, or who care as much as we do. That said, it's tiring sometimes to read comments from some of the haters out there especially when I realize that no matter what we say or do, nothing is going to satisfy them.
So Geno when you say that you ask questions in strict confidentiality, clearly anything we write on here is open for anyone to read, including the haters. And I try not to change the way I do anything because of the negativity, but sometimes it makes me think twice about how much information to share. The fact is, our jackets should speak for themselves. If someone has one of our jackets and they aren't happy with something about it, we are here to help satisfy them. If they buy something from our site and they don't want it for any reason (or no reason whatsoever) return it to us for a full refund. If you think our jackets aren't worth the money, that's completely within your rights, but I will tell you that there are plenty of other people who find that they are.
To answer the question about the sources of our leather, our cowhide comes from a few different sources. Some of this leather is finished in central and south america and some of it is tanned in the USA. But all of it is Heavy Native Steers from the USA. We wish we could source more from tanneries in the USA, but there aren't enough of them around anymore. Therefore we are forced to take US domestic hides and send them to tanneries outside the USA only to ship them back to us.
Our prices have gone up in relation to our costs that have gone up. Leather prices are through the roof, materials across the board are more expensive. Wages, cost of health benefits for our operators and their families all factor into our pricing. I wish it wasn't so, but we are where we are. I thank you for listening to my rant, and I apologize if I haven't answered the questions to your satisfaction. Most of all thank you for being here.
at 02:55 PM
You personal attention is appreciated.
I canexpress my gratitude openly and think I have done so in the past. Wen I spoke of confidentially I was refering to those that have expressed thier views to me. I don't think it serves a purpose to identify those that have contacted me directly. That is between them and what ever God's they speak to.
Frankly, as I may have said earlier, I adore the tanning processes of both Argentina and Brasil. Fact is they really produce high quality of domestic leathers from thier own cattle stocks. When I saw a 60 square foot full hde I about lost it..huge and not a blemish on it (Blemish : No tick intrusions, barbed wire scratches nor vegetation scrapes. That's another story
To be a bit defensive on the leather side.. the thickness of a leather has NOTHING to do with wind resistence. If there is enough wind to penetrate a typical cow hide it woul be accompanied by a bullet. Plain and simple !! Leathr has no ... ..repeat NO value at heat retention. None..Nada..nix..nine, negative and zilch. If someone says that 8 oz leather is more wind resistent than 6 oz I will tell them face to face..YOU are NUTS !! That's pure stupidity.
What lines the jacket is the key factor to warmth or "heat retention".
Jason , Gail and staff.. I've probably done you a great disservice and abuse of your time for addressing these issues but I just wanted to be fair with what I was tasked with.
Thank you again for your patience and understanding.My Schott one star serves me well and I am happy wth it. I cannot recall what I paid for it but it did not seem outrageous at the time.
As ever.. Geno..the old guy ( repeat.. I am NOT a representative of Schotts of NYC..please refer you questions to that entity...)
at 04:15 PM
Yes, I miss the "Schott" 'logo that was previously screened onto the interior liner of the 125. I was informed that this is now passe...OK, but from a company that proudly embosses its name on every snap, button, rivet, and zipper-head that is possible, that seems to be an odd statement?
I also preferred the metal zipper on the old liner and most importantly, the heavier/thicker leather on my older 125s.
I purchased all of my previous Schotts (minus the used Rancher vests) from the same Shop in CT. After my most recent Perecto was stolen, I purchased directly from the website, so I didn't have any knowledge of the changes in production. I had no reason to believe there would be any as the only noticeable changes to any of my 3 previous 125s, was the additon of a leather zipper-pull. So I was stunned to see a change in leather, zipper, and lining.
Not sure who the "hater" you are referring to is. But I can say this: after spending THOUSANDS of dollars on 3 new Perfecto jackets, 2 new 515v vests, a new retro jacket and 2 used Rancher vests during 3 different decades, voicing displeasure in changes made to a product I have worn almost EVERY single day regardless of the weather for 18 years, hardly makes one a "hater"...it does make one a long-time(if not life-long) repeat client. The type of client that usually is appreciated, not talked poorly about (or "hated" about) to mutual friends.
I am a huge fan and ambassador of the older perfectos and still own the 2 that no longer fit. I even named a now deceased pet, Schott. I was even willing to spend nearly double-the-price of a stock 125 on a custom made one, but was informed that I couldn't get the metal zipper or same leather as my old 125s...I search everyday for a suitable replacement to my stolen 125 because I don't want to buy a Langlitz, I want to wear a SCHOTT....just like I have for 18 years.
If someone is disappointed, it doesn't make them a hater...it means they are disappointed. If they voice their displeasure, it simply means that they were most likely MADE IN THE USA.
at 04:24 PM
The thickness of a leather motorcycle jacket is very important when one is still traveling at-speed, but unfortunately no-longer perched upon the motorcycle. One would be unwise to think otherwise.
at 04:57 PM
I just saw the last comment in reference to "thickness"of leather making a difference while perched atop a mototcycle taveling at .....
I'm assuming now then that motorcycles travel at 3,250 fps..or the speed of a .223 ( NATO 5,56) that is and I repeat IS the only way one could/would notice the valuof wind. Cow hide at 4 oz is as impermeable as 8 oz. Period..end of discussion. I still, on ocassion wrap a leg around a Honda and zoom to my hearts content. Cycle is NOT mine and I a no longer an entusiast...but my a** is not sedentary.
I am amazed at some who think because they ride a bike 340 in all weather they are weather experts. ( erroneous analogy?)..same result./ conlusion.
If those comments were intended for my consumtion then fact has been outstripped my fiction.
at 05:09 PM
I prefer a thicker piece of leather between me and the pavement if/when I happen to dump my mc, regardless of the weather...just a quirky preference of mine, thats all.
If you prefer a thinner piece of leather between you and the pavement, more power to you.
at 04:30 PM
I happen to like the new vislon zipper that Schott is using for the zipout liner. The metal ones do scratch. As for the weight of leather - any weight leather breaks the wind. Heavy leather is appreciated if and when you take a fall, as the heavier leather will hold up better against the pavement. FYI - 8 oz leather is what is used for many saddlebags, so having an 8 oz leather jacket is overkill, if such a jacket even exists. Even 4 oz is a bit heavy for some people. Most compettion riding suit manufacturers, such as Vanson, use 3.5 oz leather. So if it's good enough for MotoGP racers riding at 150 mph, it should be more than adequate for 60 mph cruisers.
at 04:51 PM
I'm happy You prefer the lighter leather and plastic zipper...but I don't. I loved everything about the older 125s especially the craftsmanship which is why I wore it for 18 years. IMO it was a much better jacket, doesn't make me a hater. It means I like the older ones better.